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I found many years ago in a thrift shop a 7" 45 of O MY SOUL. Long version on one side, short version on the other. Couldn't the record company tell that SEPTEMBER GURLS was obviously the potential hit? Were they being lazy and just did side one cut one for the single to get it over with?
not the O MY SOUL isn't an awesome song, but ya know what I mean...
not the O MY SOUL isn't an awesome song, but ya know what I mean...
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Re: what were they thinking?
Tue, November 9, 2004 - 3:47 PMpretty sure september gurls was released as a single too.
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Re: what were they thinking?
Tue, November 9, 2004 - 3:51 PMand anyway it's pretty obvious that the record company never gave a shit about their best act, Big Star. -
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Re: what were they thinking?
Tue, November 16, 2004 - 11:55 PMI love Big Star, but would hesitate calling them the "best act" on legendary r&b powerhouse Stax-Volt (home to Wilson Pickett, Otis Redding and Booker T & The MGs). By the time they signed Big Star, the label was falling apart. "September Gurls" DID get some radio play in the upper South, I remember. Is the copy of "O My Soul" you found (lucky you!) a radio promo? -
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Re: what were they thinking?
Wed, November 17, 2004 - 11:00 AMI meant best act of 1972-4...i totally agree with you that Stax's glory days in the mid-late 60's are unbeatable. -
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Re: what were they thinking?
Wed, November 17, 2004 - 12:48 PMOne of Stax's original acts, Rufus Thomas ("Bear Cat," "Walkin' The Dog") was knocking down some really inventive funk stuff at the same time BS was performing their epic jackaround with "Third/Sister Lovers." But, on the whole, the great days had passed the label by.
What were they thinking? Perhaps that in Big Star, they had another Raspberries on their hands and that anything by Alex Chilton would sell itself. Certainly Stax's vaunted global distribution did little for the band. My private theory is that Stax thought nothing at all (default mode for any label) and Big Star music was simply too advanced for early 70s radio.
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Re: what were they thinking?
Wed, November 17, 2004 - 11:01 AMAnd yeah..you found a Orig 45 of O my soul...Good God! you might be the luckiest man alive! -
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Re: what were they thinking?
Wed, November 17, 2004 - 2:20 PMi'm in heaven with this thread? which one of you wants to be my first husband? LOL
I had a brick from the STAX building which I picked up in Memphis.... lost in my apt fire last summer... didn't burn up, of course, just couldn't find it in the rubble :-(
I agree, Stax glory days were before Big Star, and that Big Star was probably their best act of that time.
As to what Stax thought or whether they cared, etc... Well, I don't think they thought "anything by Alex Chilton would sell" His heyday of glory with The Box Tops was well past, in pop radio terms, by the time of Big Star. In fact, I believe Alex was washing dishes in Memphis by then?
Leading me to point two, they got signed to Stax because the band was a Memphis band and Stax was the local label in town.
They recognized a good band when they saw one and signed them... I'm not convinced, had Stax not picked them up, that any of the major labels would have taken them on and signed them.
Your thoughts? -
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Re: what were they thinking?
Wed, November 17, 2004 - 4:26 PMi think the fundamental truth about big star and why they were never big was that they were definitely ahead of their time....one interpretation of this (not by any means the only, though) would be to say they were too good. obviously there were many stellar bands in this period, but it was also the era or longwinded "i took way too much acid last summer" solos, and glam was beginning to die too. All you had left was the faint rumblings that would soon enough become punk and a burgeoning disco scene (bleck). in fact, they were so good that Alex knew this fact hence the myriad of tongue-in-cheek names for the albums, as well as the band name itself. I used to spin records on a closing shift on saturday nights years ago at green apple books, san francisco and i kid you not, if i played thirteen, or ballad of el goodo or watch the sunrise or way out west etc. etc. then i had a sale, guaranteed. the only other artist i can say this for is neutral milk hotel, by the way.
ps-i love rufus, but still would pick big star as my favorite of that era.
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Re: what were they thinking?
Wed, November 17, 2004 - 5:18 PM"i'm in heaven with this thread? which one of you wants to be my first husband? LOL "
What a handsome offer! Thanks... :)
That Chilton's hits he'd racked up w/the Box Tops lent him the kind of industry cachet someone who'd just walked in off the street wouldn't have is beyond question. That's just how the biz works. Stax made its fortune off the singles market and that was Chilton's strength going in.
The singles just didn't catch on. I personally think they were too edgy and melancholy for their era, but that doesn't explain why songs as 1972 radio-ready as "When My Baby's Beside Me" or "In The Street" didn't chart. The fact that the singles market was being eclipsed by albums didn't help either, I imagine.
If Big Star had appeared later or survived until the late-70s power pop craze they helped invent, then it's hard to imagine a major that WOULDN'T have signed them. -
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Re: what were they thinking?
Wed, November 17, 2004 - 5:31 PMagreed and double ditto with all points made here.... i'm sure in my hurry to get back to my desk after lunch i was a bit too shorthanded and glib...
i can't really argue with what you've said here, though
i guess what i meant by his Box Tops days being"well behind him" was not that it didn't help him get signed by Stax, certainly they knew who he was, it HAD to help....
nonethless, he was washing dishes for a living at that point, and his charttoppers with the Box Tops wouldn't have helped him much in terms of the record buying public or even getting radio play necessarily
as to "never played this or that song without making a sale" there is only one other artist i had this experience with when working at a record store... and really it's a variation on the theme
it was elliott smith, when someone who hadn't heard him asked about an album, was hesitant about whether to buy it or not, i'd always say, "buy it, take it home, listen to it 5 times, if you don't absolutely love it, bring it back and I'll refund your money"
Not ONE of those albums ever got returned!
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Re: what were they thinking?
Wed, November 17, 2004 - 5:32 PMSince you brought it up, i gotta say, "the letter" is an absolutely devastating track...all like 1:59 of it...the last ten seconds are worth the price of admission alone. -
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Re: what were they thinking?
Thu, November 18, 2004 - 11:20 AMi 100% agree with you...
i'm far too hungover to wax poetic though... i was at the guided by voices show last night and i drank even more than bob pollard did... and then had to come to work in the morning
i'm in that godawful no man's land between "still drunk" and hungover....
if only i could drink sparks at my desk, everything would be okay.... -
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Re: what were they thinking?
Thu, November 18, 2004 - 1:14 PMlisten here: NO ONE drinks more than Bob Pollard. NO ONE. Hehehe. -
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Re: what were they thinking?
Thu, November 18, 2004 - 3:39 PMhey, you've haven't been drinking with me! but you probably have been drinking with bob, i mean who hasn't? hehehehe
believe me, I gave bob a run for his money last night in the drinking department ;-)
at least in terms of body weight to alcohol ratio... bob's a big guy! and I'm a rather petite girl...
I'm not sure i didn't outstrip him even THAT way
lessee - a bottle of bud with dinner, 3 sparks and 2 glasses of pbr at the "pre-function" bar, 3 more beers and 3 double tall whiskey cokes at the show....
okay okay, that's only 12 drinks, he probably did drink more quantitatively, but given the vast difference in our height-weight ratio, i think i pretty well matched him drink for drink!
heheheehehehe -
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Re: what were they thinking?
Thu, November 18, 2004 - 4:27 PMOkay...you win. The few times i've seen the man he has gotten WASTED...goodness gracious...and this from a former schoolteacher...oh wait, that actaully makes sense. -
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Re: what were they thinking?
Thu, November 18, 2004 - 4:42 PMnah, i was joshing... there are no winners and losers here! we're all winners as long as we trust in Bob hehehehe
i mean, yikes! i did actually drink that much...
but don't get me wrong, bob was sloshed! slugging off a fifth of tequila while downing a miller lite at the same time...
i just think i was probably nearly as sloshed, that's all ;-)
he was actually MUCH more wasted at the last gbv show I saw Oct 21st 2003... (i remember that date, cuz I saw the show, went home and got in bad and got a phone call at 3 am saying elliott had killed himself.... )
i mean, he could barely stand, let alone talk or sing... i've seen them lots of times, but that was the most wasted i'd seen him!
bob is a real interesting character... strange...
not so sure I'd want him teaching my imaginary kids! *laughs*
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Re: what were they thinking?
Thu, November 18, 2004 - 4:38 PMI remember an interview with chilton where he said stax didn't really know how to market the kind of music they were doing. It wasn't 'soul' or 'urban'. Indeed a lot of critics and music fans in the early seventies thought big star and other early 'power pop' bands were a bit of an anachronism - doing neo-beatles 3 minute pop songs in the time of emerging prog rock with its 20 minute jams and 'concept albums'.
Just like another 70's favorite of mine STORIES*, their original songs were too good to be hits.
*[STORIES' one and only hit song, 'brother louie' on their second album was a cover, while their original tunes are largely forgotten. It's a shame, because they had a unique style of baroque flavored glam rock thanks to former left banke member Michael Brown on keyboards, and a great rock screamer Ian Lloyd on vocals] -
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Re: what were they thinking?
Thu, November 18, 2004 - 5:58 PMhmmm....interesting. i only know of them because I love the Left banke... -
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Re: what were they thinking?
Thu, November 18, 2004 - 7:45 PMI remember "Brother Louie" well. Michael Browne's project in between the Left Banke and Stories was called Montage. Their one album is tasty stuff. -
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Re: what were they thinking?
Fri, November 19, 2004 - 6:44 AManyone a fan of the Millenium??? also very tasty pop stuff from LA.....that 3 cd set is amazing!!! -
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Re: what were they thinking?
Fri, November 19, 2004 - 4:51 PMI have the milennium album on vinyl. love that song 'it's you'. Curt Boetcher had another 60's pop band called SAGITTARIUS that was pretty good,too. Keith Olsen was also the bass player for MUSIC MACHINE and went on to produce albums for fleetwood mac and grateful dead in the 70's. -
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Re: what were they thinking?
Wed, December 22, 2004 - 4:18 PMJust joined the tribe and read this topic, so forgive me for joining in late.
One misnomer noticed, Big Star was not signed to Stax/Volt, they were signed to Ardent, which was the house label for Ardent studios. While Stax did own the label, it was run separately from the main Stax imprint.
The reason that Big Star never got any attention basically came down to their music being considered anachronistic. Their heavily anglophilic sound which harkened back to the height of the British Explosion of the sixties was very much out of vogue in popular music by that time. This is much the same reason bands like the Rasberries, etc., while faring better than Big Star, did not being mega-stars.
The other thing that kept Big Star down was that Stax's distribution had completely fallen apart and the records just weren't getting shipped. This affected not only Big Star, but much of the rest or the catalogues from Stax affiliated labels. Better distribution is what let the early power pop groups like the Rasberries achieve the success that they did, however minor. -
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Re: what were they thinking?
Wed, December 22, 2004 - 4:30 PMhmmmmmmmmmmmm wow! nice points and welcome aboard!!!
of course, i've looked at that label a zillion times "stax/volt/ardent" just didn't think about it!
not so sure on the hearkening back to british explosion stuff though... i'm not saying no, but i'll have to think on it...
i love that era of music, but i've never once thought of it while listening to big star...
if anything i agree with the person who said the opposite, that they were too far ahead of the curve in heralding the power pop that was soon to follow
on the rasperberries, i might tend to agree with you more on the british invasion thing... but i'm not really familiar enough with their catalogue to make a definitive statement -
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Re: what were they thinking?
Wed, December 22, 2004 - 5:56 PMWell, Bell and Chilton were avid fans of the British stuff and basically took that as their model for what they wanted Big Star to be, particularly Bell.
While looking back, it can be easy to say they were ahead of their time. At the actual time that they were working the whole British explosion had basically subsided and gone out of fashion. Hooky, melodic, short, guitar based pop songs like they were doing was considered old-fashioned. Although the term retro would later be coined and it would be deemed cool to be that, at the time it was considered anything but.
What I've always like to wonder is what it would have been the results if Chilton had been successful a couple years prior to the beginning of Big Star in convincing Bell to go to NY and forming a folk duo with him.
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